I agree with the refutative points you made near the end of your OP. One other point I would add is that this error started before christians were anointed with holy spirit - the "spirit of the truth" - which Jesus said will guide them into all the truth. In contrast, Watchtower errors have always been promulgated by Watchtower leaders professing to be anointed with holy spirit. So Watchtower's comparison of its own errors with that of John 21:23 is not valid.
Island Man
JoinedPosts by Island Man
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18
John 21:23 a new argument for JW's regarding false prophecy promoted being OK
by ILoveTTATT2 ini want as many minds put into this as possible.. there is a new argument among the extreme jw apologists, saying that even the disciples promoted mistakes.
they base themselves on john 21:23. keep in mind, i am not a believer but i want the answer from a believer's standpoint, please.. .
nwt:.
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Are atheists more likely to be morally good than Christians?
by FusionTheism ini have no problem saying atheists and christians are equal.. but some people seem to have the belief that atheists are more likely to be morally good, or more likely to change the world for good, than christians and theists.. but what evidence do you have to support this claim?.
if atheism is what causes people to do great positive things for the world, then why weren't martin luther king, jr., william wilberforce, isaac newton, francis collins, barack obama, mother theresa, abraham lincoln, or john f. kennedy atheists?.
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Island Man
Yes, and here's why:
1. Christianity teaches some immoral tenets which christians are duty bound to accept in the name of "trusting in the Lord/Jehovah with all your heart and not leaning on your own understanding". Christian morality is rooted in the concept of unquestioning obedience to authority of scripture. Whatever scripture says has to be accepted as right even if the conscience chafes at it. Christians will often justify following immoral tenets that are counter-intuitive to the conscience by saying something along the lines of man being sinful and/or limited in understanding so we should not put too much stock in our own moral sense, i.e. just because shunning seems cruel doesn't mean its not the right thing to do. God knows better than our fallen, imperfect consciences.
Atheists, however, are free to follow their conscience and don't have to engage in immoral behavior that is counter-intuitive to the conscience. Atheists don't have to jump through hoops to defend the bible's immoral position of condoning slavery.
2. Christianity attracts lots of sycophants. Because christianity holds out the reward of everlasting life if you're good and eternal destruction or torment if you're bad, many christians are not good for goodness sake. They're only good to get a reward and avoid a punishment. By contrast, atheists are good with pure motives. They like doing the right thing. They're not doing the right thing to gain an eternal reward or avert their destruction. Unlike the morally clueless JWs who return lost money to create an opportunity to shamelessly plug their religion, an atheist would return lost money because he genuinely cared about the owner - not because he's thinking of plugging an ideology.or religion.
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Disturbing hidden image in w15 04/15 page 9 (Not DF image)
by campaign of hate incould someone do me a favor and post the picture on page 9 on the above mentioned watchtower.. i'll point it out, very surprised no one else has picked up on this creepy image..
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Island Man
"I can buy the disgruntled/bored artists idea, but beyond that I can't see what the point would be.
Unless someone can propose a scientific answer as to why the WT would put in images of a bloke lying on the ground?"Exactly! It makes no sense whatsoever when you spend a little time to think about it. It only makes sense to the Subliminal Image Conspiracy Kook Oriented.
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Disturbing hidden image in w15 04/15 page 9 (Not DF image)
by campaign of hate incould someone do me a favor and post the picture on page 9 on the above mentioned watchtower.. i'll point it out, very surprised no one else has picked up on this creepy image..
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Island Man
"Your picture illustrates my point. We have a photograph of a wave and if we use our imagination, we can see a shape that resembles a face. This is a totally different situation from a hand or computer drawn image in which a face is intentionally inserted."
The photograph of the wave proves that pareidolia effects can happen naturally and be missed by many until it is pointed out to them by an astute observer. Now combine this with the fact that Watchtower often creates its illustrations by using live models on a set, which the artist makes a likeness of. So if there happens to be a live set with a pareidolia effect which the artist is oblivious to, wouldn't he capture it in the image unwittingly? Just as many people can miss these so called subliminal images it is very plausible that the artists also unwittingly create them without noticing. So the argument about the artist knowing every stroke proves nothing. He can know every stroke and still be oblivious to the "subliminal image" - the pareidolia effect - that he unwittingly creates.
Look at it another way: What if the photograph posted by Africanman was the model used by a Watchtower artist to create an illustration, and as a result the illustration came out appearing to have a face? All the Watchtower subliminal image conspiracists would be hopping up and down about Watchtower inserting the subliminal image of a face in the illustration when, in actuality, the face was inserted by nature in the real world and the artist just did a very good likeness of the photograph and missed the effect.
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Why are Battle Against Faith
by Jonathan Drake inif any are willing, share your fact based reasons for viewing faith as dangerous.
viewing faith as dangerous is the reason for almost all of my posts recently.
what seems constant is that theists are too focused on there own little world to realize how and why faith is so damaging to society.
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Island Man
Why battle against faith?
"By faith Abraham, when he was tested, as good as offered up Isaac, and the man that had gladly received the promises attempted to offer up [his] only-begotten [son]," - Hebrews 11:17
As the above text clearly shows, faith can be a very dangerous thing.
Religious people use faith to deny facts, logic, reason and even their basic built-in conscience. Isn't faith the underlying reason why JWs let themselves and their children die rather than accepting lifesaving blood transfusions? Isn't faith the underlying reason why a JW will fight his basic humanity by shunning his own flesh and blood over a changed religious opinion?
A world with religious zealots who value faith above what is demonstrably true and above the basic proddings of conscience, can be a very dangerous place! Even the bible unwittingly acknowledges this:
"In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God" - John 16:2
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Disturbing hidden image in w15 04/15 page 9 (Not DF image)
by campaign of hate incould someone do me a favor and post the picture on page 9 on the above mentioned watchtower.. i'll point it out, very surprised no one else has picked up on this creepy image..
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Island Man
Of all the ills that can be pointed out about Watchtower literature, the whole subliminal images conspiracy woo is just scraping the bottom of the barrel. No, to be fair, it's worse than scraping the bottom of the barrel! It's delusional, pseudo-scientific, conspiracy-theorist, wack-job, lunacy!
For the umpteenth time, it's nothing but pareidolia, people! Stop fitting yourself into Watchtower's stereotype of "mentally diseased"!
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What was your eye opening moment?
by WasOnceBlind inif you had to pinpoint the time or experience that finally made you open your eyes, what would it be?.
i think for me it was the time i saw my dad shun his brother who he had not seen in decades just because he was a da'ed jw.
i thought to my self "no way jesus would do that.
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Island Man
OneEyedJoe :The misquotes in the creation book was the moment where everything flipped upside down for me
Same here. -
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2015 Regional Convention Anthony Morris Governing Body encourages coerced baptism of unwilling children ...again
by Watchtower-Free inthis is from the last talk of the convention ......... clip 1:30 minutes longhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrej8tlyiso&feature=youtu.be.
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Island Man
"You are ready for your drivers license, but you're not ready to dedicate your life... hmm explain that to heaven"
Watchtower discourages young adolescent JWs from marrying, saying they're likely not mature enough for such an important commitment. But they want children to enter into the most important commitment of their lives by getting baptized? Explain that to heaven, AM III, you shameless hypocrite!
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After 2 years my parents make contact. The end result is that I promise them to cryogenically preserve ONLY their heads
by paulmolark init has been 2 and a half years since my departure from the religion.
i was told by my parents from the start that i would never speak to them until i returned to jehovah dog.
a few months later they told people they hoped i died before the end came, then all of this culminating in them telling my inactive / fading sister that they don't consider me a child anymore and they have given me up to satan.
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Island Man
I just had an idea:
What would it be like for a JW parent who has shunned their child for years, if when they call their JW child one day many years later and the ex-JW child pretended not to remember the parent or his former life as a JW?
"Who do you say you are? I'm sorry, I don't remember you. I have completely lost my memory of my past. The doctors say I must have experienced some great unbearable psychological trauma and my brain's way of dealing with it is shutting out my memory of everything from that point back."
If an ex-JW can pull this off and do a really good job of pretending not to remember them, surely that should cause the JWs to think of the great harm they have done to their child by following Watchtower's cruel shunning policy.
Also, how could a JW shun his child when the child isn't aware of why he's being shunned or what sins he committed and needs to repent of? How could they expect someone to show genuine repentance for something they don't recall doing? How do they wrap their conscience around that? lol
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After 2 years my parents make contact. The end result is that I promise them to cryogenically preserve ONLY their heads
by paulmolark init has been 2 and a half years since my departure from the religion.
i was told by my parents from the start that i would never speak to them until i returned to jehovah dog.
a few months later they told people they hoped i died before the end came, then all of this culminating in them telling my inactive / fading sister that they don't consider me a child anymore and they have given me up to satan.
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Island Man
This would have been my response:
"Hello? Who is this? Do I know you? I think you must have the wrong number. You speak as if you believe you're my mother, but you can't be since my mother died 2 and a half years ago - she was brainwashed to death by a manipulative, divisive, family-destroying cult that worships an organization. Please do not insult the memory of my mother by pretending to be her - you're a cult fanatic and nothing remotely resembling what a true mother is supposed to be. Please do not call me again or I will lodge a stalking/harassment complaint with the police!"